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Re: Tenant vacated without proper notice & trashed it? - Landlord Forum thread 183151







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Re: Tenant vacated without proper notice & trashed it? by # 1 M-bone on August 5, 2009 @01:28

                              
This is what you said "Start here: http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pr.toc.htm
The only reference to 30-days notice is 92.107 (b) otherwise without a written lease with the specific conditions set forth in the 92.107 the tenant is not required to give 30-days notice." Your words.

Again, wrong. the code that you gave here 92.107 is Tenant forwarding address, and that is not the section where you will find laws regarding a written notice to vacate. See answer in my previous post to find the applicable code, again this is for Texas which is not the State we are even talking about.

You also said to me "Read above regarding your assumption of Texas laws and what is and is not enforceable…and even factual."

First of all I never assumed anything regarding Texas laws, we're dealing with the original poster who is from MA. I don't know how you made this posters issue about you. And fineally, I did read the Texas laws and found the code that requires landlord/tenants to give written notice to vacate which is enforceable and even factual.

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Re: Tenant vacated without proper notice & trashed it? by Tony on August 5, 2009 @08:35 [ Reply ]
You are right I made a typo, my bad, and I already conceded this was about MA, and not Texas. I just took issue with the "every" and "all" statements and claims that I was just dead wrong.

92.103 B
A requirement that a tenant give advance notice of surrender as a condition for refunding the security deposit is effective ONLY if the requirement is underlined or printed in conspicuous bold print in the lease.

Furthermore 92.159 says that any notice given only has to be in writing if a written lease spells out that is has to be in writing. Which means if you were by chance correct that 30-day notice were required for a tenant to vacate then all a tenant of a verbal agreement would have to do in small claims court is say they gave you 30-days notice verbally last month and you just lost your case.

However nothing I can find in all of 92 says anything about 30-day tenants notice being a law unless a lease is being broken for reasons of family violence or military leave.

M-bone: "And finally, I did read the Texas laws and found the code that requires landlord/tenants to give written notice to vacate which is enforceable and even factual."

Really where? Can you give a paragraph reference because I cant find it? In fact I believe you are mistaken and have made assumptions about Texas laws, and made this about me when you and Mr Anonymous turned it into a personal attack. No worries though I don't have tiny feelings but I would like for you to back up your statements with some references because if I am wrong it would be good to clear this up.

    Re: Tenant vacated without proper notice & trashed it? by # 1 M-bone on August 5, 2009 @13:08 [ Reply ]
    Don't know where you conceded this was about MA, when you were referencing Texas laws. You can't find anything in all of 92..........That's because it's found in 91 which I already pointed out.

    We (Mr. Anonymouse and I) did not turn this into a personal attack, nor made any assumption about Texas laws. YOU made it about Texas laws and cited the wrong code # for the 30 day notice for which I keep having to follow you around correcting you.

    Here again is where you can find the code for Texas law referencing the termination of tenancies, I even spelled it out for you this time.

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PR/htm/PR.91.htm#91.001PROPERTY CODE

    TITLE 8. LANDLORD AND TENANT

    CHAPTER 91. PROVISIONS GENERALLY APPLICABLE TO LANDLORDS AND TENANTS

    Sec. 91.001. NOTICE FOR TERMINATING CERTAIN TENANCIES. (a) A monthly tenancy or a tenancy from month to month may be terminated by the tenant or the landlord giving notice of termination to the other.

    (b) If a notice of termination is given under Subsection (a) and if the rent-paying period is at least one month, the tenancy terminates on whichever of the following days is the later:

    (1) the day given in the notice for termination; or

    (2) one month after the day on which the notice is given.

    (c) If a notice of termination is given under Subsection (a) and if the rent-paying period is less than a month, the tenancy terminates on whichever of the following days is the later:

    (1) the day given in the notice for termination; or

    (2) the day following the expiration of the period beginning on the day on which notice is given and extending for a number of days equal to the number of days in the rent-paying period.

    (d) If a tenancy terminates on a day that does not correspond to the beginning or end of a rent-paying period, the tenant is liable for rent only up to the date of termination.

    (e) Subsections (a), (b), (c), and (d) do not apply if:

    (1) a landlord and a tenant have agreed in an instrument signed by both parties on a different period of notice to terminate the tenancy or that no notice is required; or

    (2) there is a breach of contract recognized by law.


    Also would like to point out another code for Texas law, definition of residential tenancies. Notice number (3) that oral agreements are recognized. In case you are going to argue that too, I'll just go ahead and say that "oral" means verbal.

    PROPERTY CODE

    TITLE 8. LANDLORD AND TENANT

    CHAPTER 92. RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES

    SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

    Sec. 92.001. DEFINITIONS. Except as otherwise provided by this chapter, in this chapter:

    (1) "Dwelling" means one or more rooms rented for use as a permanent residence under a single lease to one or more tenants.

    (2) "Landlord" means the owner, lessor, or sublessor of a dwelling, but does not include a manager or agent of the landlord unless the manager or agent purports to be the owner, lessor, or sublessor in an oral or written lease.

    (3) "Lease" means any written or oral agreement between a landlord and tenant that establishes or modifies the terms, conditions, rules, or other provisions regarding the use and occupancy of a dwelling.


    YOU ARE ONLY STATEING SEC.92.103 B Which is a requirement pertaing to landlords obligation to refund the security deposit. Here's the rest of that Section.

    Sec. 92.103. OBLIGATION TO REFUND. (a) Except as provided by Section 92.107, the landlord shall refund a security deposit to the tenant on or before the 30th day after the date the tenant surrenders the premises.

    (b) A requirement that a tenant give advance notice of surrender as a condition for refunding the security deposit is effective only if the requirement is underlined or is printed in conspicuous bold print in the lease.

    In other words if landlord requires tenant to give advance notice AS A CONDITION FOR REFUNDING THE SECURITY DEPOSIT, landlord must state this in his lease. In other words, landlord can not just keep deposit because tenant failed to give proper notice when the requirement is not spelled out in the lease. This secion does not mean that tenants are not obligated to giving a proper 30 day notice as you are implying.

    YOU BRING UP THIS SEC. Sec. 92.159. I copied and pasted directly form the laws. IT SAYS; WHEN TENANT'S REQUEST OR NOTICE MUST BE IN WRITING. A tenant's request or notice under this subchapter may be given orally unless the tenant has a written lease that requires the request or notice to be in writing and that requirement is underlined or in boldfaced print in the lease.

    So, without a written agreement, tenant can give an oral 30 day notice. Well, yeah he also has to pay his rent for that 30 day notice period, if he didn't the landlord will evict him, and the landlord just won his case.

    Funny how you paraphrase portions of the laws, and fail to give the rest of the sec. of that law, and you try to imply that those sec. mean that tenants are not required to give a written or oral 30 day notice. The codes or Sec. that YOU HAVE reffered to are "Obligation to refund" and "WHEN tenants request or notice must be in writting". You completely missed Sec. 91.001 that is "Notice of termination of certain tenancies". That I have indeed brought to your attention in my last not one but two posts. Don't turn this debate into something else that it's not. The entire issue is wether or not tenant must give a proper notice to vacate, period. With verbal agreements, tenant only has to give a verbal 30 day notice, no big deal as tenant also has to pay rent for that 30 day period, otherwise he will be evicted.

    Now, what am I missing?


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