Damages after vacating - no rental agreement - Landlord Forum thread 344622

Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by Billie (CA) on April 24, 2016 @22:19

I did not have a rental agreement signed by my last tenant. On the day she moved out, I discovered she had ripped the carpet out of one of the bedrooms and disposed of it. She did pay a deposit and I have documentation of those checks. Can I deduct any/all of the cost of replacement?

[ Reply ] [ Return to forum ]

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by Garry (Iowa) on April 24, 2016 @23:53	[ Reply ]

Not having a signed rental agreement, simply means you both have to go by whatever the basic, general terms/laws are in the Ca. LL/T codes. It usually says what both the LL, and the T are responsible for. (in general, basic terms---- nothing specific to any 1 T, LL, or property. ) Look them up. About the carpet. How old was it, what condition was it in when the T moved in, and do you have pics of the carpet? If the Carpet was old and needed replacing, don't charge the T anything, just replace it at your cost, and re-rent the place. If it was only 2-3 years old, you were probably depreciating the carpet at about 15-20% per year, so you should charge the T for the remaining life of the carpet, say 50% of the cost to put in new.

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by Barbara on April 25, 2016 @10:46	[ Reply ]

no rental agreement-no recourse to claim damages. you have nothing that says the tenant is responsible for damages. you cannot deduct any cost as there is no way to prove the tenant cannot remove the carpet. on the other hand, you failed to offer the tenant a pre-move out inspection as required by law. that prohibits you from deducting from the security deposit.

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by Magic Mike on April 25, 2016 @11:46	[ Reply ]

What is the point of holding a security deposit if it is not to put towards tenant damage? Of course I would put the deposit towards the replacement carpet. Changing the flooring is obviously not normal wear and tear.

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by AnonymousFL on April 25, 2016 @16:48	[ Reply ]

Barbara, that is incorrect. Even with unwritten contracts, the landlord has the ability to deduct from the security deposit. See this link: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml ...which states... California law specifically allows the landlord to use a tenant's security deposit for four purposes: - For unpaid rent; - For cleaning the rental unit when the tenant moves out, but only to make the unit as clean as it was when the tenant first moved in; - For repair of damages, other than normal wear and tear, caused by the tenant or the tenant's guests; and - If the lease or rental agreement allows it, for the cost of restoring or replacing furniture, furnishings, or other items of personal property (including keys), other than because of normal wear and tear. A landlord can withhold from the security deposit only those amounts that are reasonably necessary for these purposes. The security deposit cannot be used for repairing defects that existed in the unit before you moved in, for conditions caused by normal wear and tear during your tenancy or previous tenancies, or for cleaning a rental unit that is as clean as it was when you moved in. A rental agreement or lease can never state that a security deposit is "nonrefundable."

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by Anonymous on April 25, 2016 @21:07	[ Reply ]

I must apologize to all after re-reading my original post. I discovered the carpet being removed about 5 weeks before she vacated- NOT on the day of. I'm working about 12 hours a day, 7 days a week right now and it was obviously too late at night for me to be posting :) Anyway, I am hoping to sell the property and had given her notice that I would be doing a walk-through with my realtor. When we arrived, the carpet and padding were outside and she said to both of us that she took it out because it smelled. I remembered later that in the beginning month of her living there and I was in the house when she was at work, she would leave her dog locked in that room, so I just don't know what to think - did it still smell from the previous tenants, even though it was professionally cleaned before she moved in? I just don't know. Unfortunately, she was so eager to move in that I didn't get pictures of that room and the carpet after it was cleaned. We did do a walk-thru, but it wasn't planned (I was driving by the house and she was there unexpectedly and had her coworker with her). Awkward to say the least. We walked through the house and chatted and she gave me the keys, but we didn't discuss any issues that I saw. This home is my only property other than my main residence and has been rented mainly to people who needed a "hand up", so to speak. So, this renter is my first experience with deposits/walk-thru's etc. I can see I've made some mistakes. At any rate, I may just have to chalk this one up, and continue working on selling the place and getting out of the LL business. ;) Thank you all for your professional opinions, advice and links to CA information. It's much appreciated :) Billie

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement

Re: Damages after vacating - no rental agreement by MrDan (GA) on April 25, 2016 @21:28	[ Reply ]

Any landlord operating under a oral/verbal rental agreement may run into a lot of liability. Not knowing all the facts of the agreement, here are some pitfalls; California consider an oral rental agreement greater than one year is not enforceable. As the landlord, you will have no written proof of the terms of your rental agreement. The landlord would not be able to collect attorney�s fee, should a tenant lose a court case. A landlord may not evict a tenant for breach of a lease provision other than failure to pay rent unless the provision breached is in a writing signed by the tenant. With an oral agreement, rent is due at the end of the month. "Civil Code Sec. 1947. When there is no usage or contract to the contrary, rents are payable at the termination of the holding, when it does not exceed one year. If the holding is by the day, week, month, quarter, or year, rent is payable at the termination of the respective periods, as it successively becomes due". "I did not have a rental agreement signed by my last tenant" was this perhaps due to the tenants failure to sign or did you just not present the tenant with a rental agreement? Either way, the cost of the carpet is its depreciation value. If the carpet is say seven years old and would likely last for ten years, you have three years of useful life left. You may charge the tenant for the remaining useful life of the carpet. If the carpet has no remaining useful life, then you cannot charge the tenant. You did not state if the tenant vacated early or at the end of the agreed upon termination date. Be sure to get your security deposit settlement statement out within 21 days or you will have to return the full deposit.