The Landlord Protection Agency  
Main Menu, Landlord Protection Agency homepage Membership With The Landlord Protection Agency Free Landlord Services Member Services  

Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities - Landlord Forum thread 217513

Free Landlord Newsletter

Prospect Card

FREE BONUS Forms Disk for
2 -5 year LPA Members


Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by Melissa (CT) on February 11, 2011 @09:50

Hello everyone - I have a question and any feedback is greatly appreciated. I have a section eight tenant and an annual inspection is conducted every January. I left this apartment in excellent condition for this tenant including freshly painted walls & doors, a brand new refrigerator, freshly cleaned carpets, etc. I have had this tenant for a year and she has agreed to stay another year. The section eight inspection department notified me that I, the landlord, failed the annual inspection for some minor things. These things were ‘graffiti’ all over the walls and that they are to be cleaned or repainted and to repair or replace a light fixture.

When I went to the apartment to repair what was indicated these things I was horrified. This woman apparently allows her daughter to draw with crayons, markers, pens, etc all over the walls and doors everywhere. Along with the graffiti everywhere are stickers and random stuff taped to the walls and doors. Upon my inspection this woman doesn’t seem to own a vacuum machine or any basic household cleaning materials. There is food and garbage everywhere. The light fixture was just that she took the light bulb out of it because she doesn’t like how bright it was. It took me four hours to scrub all the walls and that didn’t include the stickers everywhere.

My question is why is this my responsibility to clean up after my tenant? My lease stipulates that the tenant at her own expense and at all times maintain the premises in a clean and sanitary manner including all equipment and appliances (she trashed the brand new refrigerator as well). Firstly, is there a way I can charge her for my labor and costs to clean and repair for the section eight inspection? Secondly, how can I get her to buy a vacuum cleaner and basic cleaning materials to maintain the apartment in a clean and sanitary manner?

Again, any help is most appreciated!

[ Reply ] [ Return to forum ]

Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by Jake on February 11, 2011 @10:13 [ Reply ]
The tenant problems you posted are the reasons that landlords so frequently refuse to submit their property to section 8 authority. Section 8 tenants are homeless people without even a basic education, employment or the inclination to live like normal people. They are highly unprofitable as tenants.
Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by cyg (tx) on February 11, 2011 @10:28 [ Reply ]
This is the problem with section 8. I had a tenant who never replaced her indoor light bulbs when they went out(not a bulb in the apt worked),the toliet was filthy black, the apartment was filthy you could not even see the tile floor because they were completly full of dirt the apartment reaked of urine. The section 8 inspector told me I had to put all new light bulbs and clean the toliet and apartment and to provide the tenant with plug ins or air freshners. I told him I would not change the bulbs it was her job to do that , and as far as the cleaning this was not a hotel and she was responsible for doing the cleaning, and if he liked he could help her clean it. Sometimes you have to put your foot down with section 8. Yes you can and should charge this woman, as far as her getting to buy cleaning materials/supplies you have a better chance seeing a pig fly. Get rid of her at the end of the contract and never accept section 8 again! Did you take pictures of all the damages?
Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by Eric (MN) on February 11, 2011 @10:48 [ Reply ]
Section 8 is not for inexperienced landlords. It is also not for a landlord with a nice place. You are bringing in a subpar tenant into a nice place, you cannot make money in this fashion. Have a low quality unit to begin with if you are going to rent to Section 8. And keep it that way.

Next time, do not paint, buy used instead of new appliances, clean the carpets with foam spray, or put in foam-back carpet that you can just do yourself. Section 8 tenants are VERY hard on the unit. They have more children, and less respect. They generally have an entitlement attitude.

You can discriminate against Section 8, in most areas and not take it. You can also take it, and require a 600+ credit score and a 100% clean criminal background. You cannot discriminate against them for not having 3x the income. By definition, they will have it.

All of the dirt and damages the Section 8 tenant does, is their responsibility to clean or fix. Section 8 will withhold rent from YOU if they do not get repaired. So, if you want to keep them, and collect rent, you have to fix the damages. You cannot evict for non-payment of rent if you get stiffed on rent by Section 8, because by definition, the place needs repairs.

I posted an article on this very subject a few weeks ago, about targeting your rental market.

Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by Eric (MN) on February 11, 2011 @10:58 [ Reply ]
Read this article. I originally wrote it for another audience, but it may help you in the future.

Remember, land lording is a game of probabilities and statistics. There are good tenants in every category, but you are looking for the highest probability of success, not the needle in a haystack. Success is defined a tenant that pays rent, leaves the unit in good order, and you make money.
Tenant turnover is your number one expense that you have any control over. Tenant turnover expenses include vacancy, legal expenses for forced vacancies, maintenance and supplies to return the unit back to rentable condition, advertising and the hours spent showing. You can defer some maintenance, but it is still there. It will eventually catch up to you. You cannot avoid interest, taxes, insurance, utilities or many of the other expenses, unless you are going out of business.

If your unit can be considered a high quality unit, whether or not you are able to charge a high rent is up to you and your marketing program. You have to have the unit capable to get the high rents. You must have a great city, great schools, great parks, and overall, a great neighborhood. The only thing left is how you maintain your own building. While you may not get $2000 per month, your units should be getting as high of a rent per square foot as any other comparable unit in your city.

There are four distinct types of rental markets. High quality unit, high quality tenants; High quality unit, low-quality tenants; Low quality unit, high quality tenants; and low quality unit, low quality tenants. These can be pictured in the following matrix.

High Quality Unit => High Quality Renter => High Profit
Low Quality Unit => High Quality Renter => Medium Profit
Low Quality Unit => Low Quality Renter => Low Profit
High Quality Unit => Low Quality Renter => Lose Money

The typical high quality renter is demanding. They know they can go anywhere. They have good career oriented jobs. Many have a college degree. They have high credit scores, 650 would be on the lower end of their range. Typically they have few, if any, children. They drive nice cars. They want amenities. Laundry in the unit, workout rooms, heated garages, elevators, security buildings, swimming pools. They want all of the high maintenance cost amenities, and they are willing to pay for them. They want a nice high quality place, and will get one.

Low quality renters can be characterized by a renter with a low credit score, sub 600. They are just looking for a place to stay; no major amenities are necessary. They typically have more children than average, and a lower paying job. They switch jobs often. They have a job, not a career. They may have several criminal arrests. They move in other people in your unit and can exceed the maximum capacity. They change their contact information regularly. They are hard on properties, and do not have enough money to put down for the damage deposit. They are forced to pay too much of their income in housing expenses, as they do not make enough income. Their past landlords are always slum lords, and all of their ills are someone else¡¦s fault.

Chapter 2
Renting to a high-quality renter is easy. Getting these renters to sign a lease is the difficult part. They pay their rent on time, and stick to themselves. They are not going to do damage beyond normal ¡§wear and tear¡¨. If you can ¡¥hook¡¦ them, you can make money from them. Lots of money. But be prepared for them to move out when they buy a house or just decide they want to move to a ritzier area of town. They may want the flexibility of a month-to-month lease after the first year. They rent because they want to, not because they have to. They pay their rent, and leave your place looking like they moved in. Your turnover costs are minimal. Whether you get top dollar because you offer the many amenities that a high quality renter requires, or offer incentives to entice them to sign on or stay, you are making money.

Renting to a low-quality renter seems easy, at first. They are not fussy. They sign up for your units very readily, and want to move in right away and start paying rent. They want to get out of the neighborhood they are living in. They may receive money from the County to help you sway your decision in their favor. They know you may be slightly higher price that the other similar apartments, but they also know they will probably not be accepted to rent in those other apartments. They make barely enough to live on, and will pay a high percentage of their income on housing. You think you have hit the jackpot with getting a rent higher than you expect. Often, they will not have enough money to pay the damage deposit, and will offer to pay it in installments after they move in. Charging a high rent to a low-quality renter is easy; being able to collect it is the problem.

The low quality renter will take their toll soon after signing the lease. If you rent is too high, they will be late with their rent quite often. They may have more people living in the apartment than should be. They may not own the cleaning supplies necessary to keep the apartment clean, not even a vacuum cleaner for a carpeted apartment. They cannot afford to buy a vacuum either. They have a car that needs fixing and that cost delays your rent. The damages will add up fast. Dirt everywhere, broken windows, drawers, doors and door knobs, dirty appliances. You may start to have mold issues. They make your common area dirty and do not pick up after themselves. You may see insect infestations. You other tenants do not want to live near them, and may start to think about moving out. The list goes on and on.

Chapter 3
If you specialize in low quality renters, with a low quality apartment, you can make some money. Section 8 would be included in this category. You must keep your rents affordable, less than three times their income. You need a low maintenance, low cost unit, and you need to manage it that way. You charge only what a low quality renter can pay and be able to live somewhat comfortable. You must be a micro-manager, making sure every minor detail of your lease is followed. Turnovers are low cost as you do the bare minimum. Cheap carpet, quick turns, fixing only what is absolutely necessary. You can often get away with having appliances that do not work properly. You buy used appliances to replace the broken ones. Fix things that have gone beyond their useful life, rather than replace. You must overlook the extra effort that you need to stay on top of things such as collecting rent, enforcing lease provisions, and fixing items that left broken might be dangerous. You paint only when it has to be painted, not when it should be. Cleaning the carpet rather than replacing it. Leaving the holes in the doors and walls, or doing a quick fix, even if it is not cosmetically appealing. You do only the minimal common area maintenance that you can get away with. You can charge extra fees whenever you can, especially late fees. You evict quickly, and make the unit turn quickly. You only fix only what the tenants complain about, not what you know is broken. By running this type of bare bones operation, you are able to defer maintenance, and pocket some income, for a while. This type of operation is the proverbial ¡¥slum lord¡¦.

The real money losing proposition occurs when you have a low quality renter, leasing a high quality apartment. This is a recipe for losing money. You cannot win renting an apartment to a tenant that cannot afford it, or is a large credit risk. When your rents are in excess of three times your tenant¡¦s income, and they have a poor credit score, statistically you will lose. You are better off at the casino.

The rent is too high for the tenant¡¦s income, leading to rent payment issues. You rented to them because no high quality renter would apply for your unit at the price you were asking. The carpet and other fixtures in the apartment are easily broken or ruined, and are of a higher quality than a low quality renter can afford to replace. You apartment becomes dirty, carpet ruined and they do not tell you when there is a maintenance issue. Your turnover costs are high, due to the cost of replacing or repairing the damage to the original condition. The only way to make money in this situation is if they stay in your apartment year after year. Any damages do not have to be repaired until they leave. Maybe you have to negotiate a lower rent, as you know when they more the place needs major work. Odds are, with your rent being too high for their income, you are forced to evict in less than a year and have to pay to restore your unit. You lose money on them almost every time.

Target high quality renters to maximize your income. Advertise where they look, the internet. Tenants that do not have a computer are generally not good tenants. Use multiple websites for maximum exposure. Avoid hard copy print mediums; you do not want a tenant that does not have access to a computer. Show your property after work and weekends. Tenants that can see it during the day are either not working, or shift workers. Both are not great to have in a multi-family unit. Avoid smokers. They make your turnovers more costly, and make the common areas smell. Price your unit at a point your unit is a better value than any other. Have a nice place that you would live in yourself. Do all the maintenance that is required. Upgrade your unit in-between tenants.

When you have shown your unit several times to high quality renters, and they do not apply, adjust your price. Move your price to a point it is irresistible, and you will have many tenants to choose from. Lowering price, increases demand - Period. Let prospective tenants know your criteria, so subpar tenants do not even apply. You only want the cream of the crop of renters. Have a high rental standard, and do not deviate from it. Providing your unit is fit for a quality renter, if you lower your rent, you can increase your standard of who is appropriate to live in your building. That will help you find a good high quality renter.

If you cannot afford to wait for a high-quality renter, you cannot afford to rent to a low-quality renter. You are undercapitalized, and it¡¦s only a matter of time before you are put out of business by your own customers.

Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord Mistakes by Anonymous on February 11, 2011 @15:22 [ Reply ]
Melissa, since no one has pointed this out I will add these observations. Apparently you had not inspected the place since this PITA moved in, over a year, and were therefore completely blindsided by the condition of the place. Aren't you aware of the need to perform periodic inspections of the property?

Why did you feel it was your job and your dime to clean up the freaking mess your tenant created? Before you wasted your time on being the cleaning lady for your tenant, did it not occur to you this was WRONG? Why would you waste your time cleaning up the crap done by this PITA family? Where is your common sense?

Why did you not report the filth and damage to the S8 folks? Why did you rent to S8 in the first place with a brand new fridge? You must be a newbie LL.

Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by ctlandlord (ct) on February 11, 2011 @15:23 [ Reply ]
tenatn must pay for the cleaning, I charge.
Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by OK-LL on February 11, 2011 @16:45 [ Reply ]
I have S8 rentals and I'm surprised that your S8 administrator is asking you to clean the unit. You should double-check the documents to verify that that items isn't under the tenant's repair section. Here, the tenant is required to keep the unit in clean and sanitary condition and S8 enforces that during their annual inspection, requiring that tenant clean in many cases. On the other hand, they have me do dipstick stuff like tighten doorknobs or replace broken locks - can't understand how regular use by tenant can break something in 1 year that my family has managed not to break in 15!

You have to understand that these welfare moms don't have any respect for your property and typically move rather than do any annual cleaning. For the most part, they came from S8 parents and the standard of living is way below par. The best thing you could have done was to visit them in their last rental before you rented to them, to see what condition your property was soon going to look like. Bet you wouldn't have rented to these folks if you'd seen where they were living.

I'm very particular about the S8 tenants I accept, and I've narrowed down the field to exclude baby mills and the able-bodied but unemployed. The best S8 tenant is an older single person on disability -- they understand the value of a decent property and don't want to move, so they adhere closely to the rules.

Good luck.

Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by Many Leonard (Florida) on January 4, 2015 @21:09 [ Reply ]
I have the same problem with a tenant. She is absolutely filthy. I am asking the Section 8 people to do what they term is a "Special Inspection". They said I had to get a police report that said she refused the inspection I wanted to give her. I will terminate her lease when it is up. I will never take Section 8 again. I had nothing but trouble with this person right from the minute she signed her lease.
Re: Filthy Tenant and Landlord responsibilities by Anonymous on November 2, 2017 @15:14 [ Reply ]
I have rented to section 8 tenant for the last 8 years. My last tenant was in home for 5 years. Often I've contemplated not to continue renting because during inspection, I have always failed for batteries not in smoke alarms, broken globes throughout the house, and once the door was kicked off the hinges and much more. And, rent is never on time that is her portion and never a late fee. When I go to the house I stress better housekeeping, does that help? No. Let me tell you the house is filthy; how could someone live this way. I have since come to my senses and I am no longer renting my house. Too much work, the house is usually trashed with week old garbage hanging on the doors , in the sinks and closet. And a potent odor that may cause you to vomit. The house is kept in deplorable condition, words cannot described. But, it seems that landlords pay the price as the tenant have all the rights for trashing your house. I've had one good tenants in those years. I am done because in the end it is costing more than its worth. You will get no help from the housing board it is all on you. I do wish you luck in your journey with Section 8 and hope you are able to resolve your situation.

Log in

Rentals Available
Rentals Wanted
Realty Brokers
Landlord Articles
Tips & Advice
Tenant Histories

Other Areas
Q&A Forum
Free Forms
Essential Forms
Landlord Tenant Law
Join Now
Credit Reports
About Us
Site Help

Contact The LPA

© 2000-2018 The Landlord Protection Agency, Inc.

If you enjoy The LPA, Please
like us on Facebook The LPA on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter The LPA on Twitter
+1 us on Google